End Post
Could stand some for some cleanup. Mostly I just wanted to preserve these calcs here as a ready reference when I wish to refer to them.
Could stand some for some cleanup. Mostly I just wanted to preserve these calcs here as a ready reference when I wish to refer to them.
Chic Bowdrie,
I don’t think that post is coming out of limbo any time soon, but I saved some of it which I use below.
And my counterpoint remains: it’s the trend over the entire interval which figure more into climate sensitivity estimates. So if the IPCC are trying to pump up CO2 potency for political leverage, and NOAA are complicit in helping them do it, the last thing they’d be expected to do is reduce the overall trend.
“The ocean is warming not from above but below” is implicit. It’s an assertion which has been loaded into the question.
It’s an assertion that wants substantiation before it can be answered. I’ll demonstrate:
1) Why does CO2 warm the planet?
2) Why will AGW be catastrophic?
3) Why are you still beating your wife?
It’s one of the oldest rhetorical tricks in the book. People who habitually do it are not to be trusted in my opinion.
Welllll … maybe you should give an earful to Monckton in addition to me.
My standard response: all I can do is present evidence I find compelling. If it doesn’t meet your standards of “definitive” or “confidence” there isn’t much else I can do other than appeal to theory.
The troposphere’s absolute temperature is cooler than the surface. Surface warms the troposphere, not the other way around. 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Bingo.
Yes.
I don’t assert circulation is causing the warming. Here’s the basic argument: Sun warms first few tens of meters. GHGs modulate the rate at which oceans radiatively dissipate energy. Turbulent mixing carries some of that heat to further depths, thermohaline circulation also moves some of it, the balance is diffusive.
CO2 is a GHG, and burning fossil fuels is what’s causing the rise.
Yes that’s true. I was arguing that point as if you were Monckton, whom I don’t consider to be acting in good faith. It’s bloody well obvious to me; however, I should not impose that on you just because of my animus toward him.
I had a bunch of calcs and scribblings for a previous post that ended up on the cutting room floor, let me see … ah. Some of this is has been covered already:
From Bintanja (2008) I estimate that the ratio of temperature change at the surface to deep ocean is ~5:1 so a 1 K change to surface would be expected to change ocean temps by 0.2 K, thus:
5.41E+21 kJ/K * 0.2 K = 1.08E+21 kJ to oceans for every 1 K change in surface temps. We can check this assumption against instrumental observation since 1955:
Regressing that against HADCRUT4 surface temps over the same interval, I get a slope of 7.60, R^2 = 0.76, so the deep ocean model from Bintanja (2008) is in the ballpark with modern instrumental observation.
The oceans are deeper than 2,000 m; average depth is 3,682.2 m according to a 2010 estimate: http://www.livescience.com/6470-ocean-depth-volume-revealed.html (satellites again), so the 2,000 m layer works out to about 54% of the ocean’s total volume, and therefore mass. We can check this another way by doing some math against ocean heat content estimates for the 2000 m layer:
Mean ΔOHC works out to 5.47E21 J/yr, and ΔT works out to 0.0019 K/yr on average, so:
That checks out within 1% of the expected result, which is rather better than I thought I’d get. From the same uppper 2,000 m OHC data, more calcs:
Using HADCRUT4 over 1957-2015 as a proxy for net atmospheric temperature change:
Given that the uncertainty of Stephens (2013) is +/- 0.4 W/m^2, 0.004 W/m^2 is looking like nothing more than rounding error no matter whether surface, radiosonde, or satellites are used to estimate the temperature change. However, noting that 0.004 / 0.6 * 100 = 0.7%, it’s in line with the 1% of net energy absorbed by the system the IPCC say we should expect.
My 0.34 W/m^2 calculation from 2,000 m OHC estimates is 0.26 W/m^2 lower than the 0.6 central estimate, and as such falls within the +/- 0.4 W/m^2 uncertainty interval. However it still wants an accounting. What “should” OHC’s contribution be? According to the IPCC (going by memory here), the estimated relative fluxes are as follows:
Given that the upper 2,000 m accounts for just over half of the oceans’ mass, it seems plausible to me that my missing heat is diffusing/circulating to lower layers. OTOH, the imbalance could be on the lower end of the Stephens (2013) central estimate. Some of both.
Mechanisms.
First the Sun. Here’s Lean’s monthly TSI reconstruction from 1882 through October 2015:
The average annual change over the entire interval is 9.06E-03 W/m^2/yr. However, that does not account for the fact that only half the planet is illuminated at any given time, nor that the angle of incidence is < 90 on the sunlit side everywhere except where the sun is directly overhead, so we need to divide by 4, giving 2.27E-03 W/m^2/yr. We've then got to knock off 30% to account for albedo, which gives 1.59E-03 W/m^2/yr. Or, to be fair, the ocean's mean albedo is 0.06, not 0.30, so call the maximum plausible upper bound 2.13E-03 W/m^2/yr.
… so AT BEST the increase in TSI since the late 19th century could only account for between a quarter and a third of the observed OHC increase in the upper 2 km layer over the past ~60 years.
CO2:
The net change over 1958-2015 is:
And for parity with the solar calcs since 1882:
Ratio comparison to solar forcing:
… which gives a lot of wiggle room for CO2 vis a vis the energy imbalance estimate uncertainty and magnitude IF the 5.35 W/m^2 forcing coefficient is correct. I haven’t accounted for negative anthropogenic forcings (mainly aerosols) which have the effect of reducing solar influence. There’s also methane, albedo change (ice/snow loss, black carbon), water vapor feedback, etc., to consider. This is wayyy to long already and I’m too tired to get to it in this post anyway.
We could attempt to juice solar by going all the way back to the Maunder Minimum:
… problem is, the shape of the OHC curve is all wrong.
TSI peaked ~1960 and has been in a slight decline. If the runup from 1700-1960 caused most of the observed imbalance, we might still expect to see OHC rising, but at a decelerating rate. The data above show the exact opposite. The shape of the OHC curve best matches the shape of ln(CO2). I find it very difficult to call that sheer coincidence.
Emphasis added. A lot of things are possible. I know of no TSI reconstructions that match OHC from 1957 and surface temp change from 1850. It doesn’t work. If it’s not CO2 and not the Sun, it’s something else we haven’t found, and that seems extremely unlikely to me. Logically I cannot rule it out, OTOH, I don’t think it irrational to believe what the consilience of multiple lines of evidence and radiative physics suggest: it’s CO2.
To change my mind requires that someone identifies the … Force X … applies a plausible physical model for it, and demonstrates it with empirical evidence such that it is a better “predictor” of the past than the CO2 model. I wasn’t kidding about supporting a Red Team to do such a thing. I found it curious that I met with such resistance in this forum when I expressed that sentiment.
I cannot write another word. I hope some of the above makes sense.
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